paradisaooc | ACTIVITY CHECK DISCUSSION

Entry tags:

important,
mod post

ACTIVITY CHECK DISCUSSION

Hey guys!

So there's been some confusion and disagreement about what should/should not count for activity check, what is counted where, etc. So this is a post where we'd like to discuss revamping the activity check system with you! Once we can get a clear idea of what everyone feels is fair, it will make it easier for us to have a clear system where everyone understands the activity requirements desired of each character in Paradisa.

SECTIONS:

What do you think should count for a post?
What should constitute thread "size"?
What should constitute comment "quality"?
How much should the mods be responsible for? The players?
How should a thread on a log be judged?

Threaded | Flat

Right now, the current activity check asks for 2 journal posts to the main community or the equivalent (a post on the journal community along with a log on the logs community, two logs on the log community, a post to the journal community and some number of threads, a post to the log community and some number of threads, a great number of threads and no posts at all). As a note, currently, if all a player's activity for a given character is done in threads without posts to either the journal or log communities, they will find that character listed on the "Activity Check -- Additional Threads for (Month)" posts we make each month. They aren't considered inactive, yet we as mods are not able to track thread activity and thus rely on players to inform us on their thread activity at that time in order to pass them for the AC of any given month.

Knowing this, what do you feel should count as an "equivalent" to one post? How many threads, how many comments? Does a thread on a log count as a full post? What are your thoughts on this?

How long must a thread be before its considered long? How many comments qualify a thread as too short to count for activity? What qualifications should be used to see if a thread counts toward activity? How many comments from a given character, how many comments in total? Should shorter threads be allowed to stack in order to meet a generally agreed upon and approved "length" for threads needed to pass AC? How should thread dropping be viewed, handled, or addressed?

Should any single comment of greater length be considered equivalent to several shorter tags? Should all comments be counted as the same regardless of length of comment, or time spent authoring said comment? In passing a generally agreed upon thread length, should any consideration be shown toward comment depth and breadth if a thread isn't hitting length, but is hitting material played? The mods recognize that a series of short responses, such as "yes, no, maybe, shut up, go away I hate you, oh my god where is the cake" can stack into a thread twenty comments long fairly quickly, where more intense, introspective, or dialog/emotion heavy comments can get up to ten over a longer period of time. Should there be any consideration granted to the difference between these types of comments when looking at the length of a thread being used for proof of activity?

Due to the size of this game, it is difficult if not impossible for the mods to find all activity every character has. Consequently posts such as the "Activity Check -- Additional Threads for (Month)" are made each month in order to allow players to inform the mods of activity their character has had that has slipped by under the radar of the mods. This post is never meant as a penalization, and is instead meant to reward players with passes and no marks on their AC records by allowing them to demonstrate and share their character's activity.

Do you like the current compromise of having to post threads to the "Activity Check -- Additional Threads for (Month)" post in order to make sure you are recognized with activity for any given character? Would you prefer a different system, such as one where players submit activity they want counted to the mods each month, and those submissions are looked over and passed or requests for further activity are made?

For example, would you like a permanent activity post where you reply each month to a comment with your character's name, filling out their AC for that month?

In another example, would you like an AC post made to the OOC community each month, where players are asked to respond to that post with each character's activity for the month?

Are there other systems you can think of which you feel would better work for this community and/or ensuring people feel recognized as active? There is only so much the staff can do when it comes to tracking activity. How do you feel improvements can be made, and what suggestions to those ends come to mind?

Should it be counted as a comment thread, like the threads on the main community? Should there be a separate set of qualifications for determining length and quality of log threads? Should a thread on a log thread alone be able to count as a post? "If a thread in a log is to count as the equivalent to a closed post between X number of characters, how many comments does an individual character need to make in order for said thread to "meet" AC requirements for a post? 5 comments? 7? 10? What about thread dropping in log threads? Should people be allowed to add log threads together in order to meet the equivalent of one post, even if those threads are in separate logs, and are not long enough on their own?"

I really appreciate that you are willing to open this up for discussion - but the fact of the matter is that we have always talked about this. I can go back through the How's the Game posts that have all been put up in this game. I can look at every single post that has been brought up with these situations and there is always, always going to be different replies from different people.

The thought that you can determine a specific number/quantity/quality of what a member of this game submits to count toward activity is sort of upsetting.

We applied to be in the game. We understood at the time of our application and acceptance what was expected of us was just a simple two-count activity. Do two things a month and you're welcome to play with us in our world.

Your two things, from the day I first joined this game back in June of 2008 was either two journal entries or two times you participated in a log (or any combination of those two).

Even when I was a mod and activity was brought up, we further clarified it so that hiatuses were no longer "indefinite" and so that the activity was more clear as to how you could make up your activity because there was no way that we could figure out how much was enough.

By asking us to put down these further stipulations of "What a tag is" and "what a log tag is" and "what is a good quality tag" - you are removing the fun from what I thought was meant to be a game.

I understand that this is a large game and it's difficult to keep everyone active, but Paradisa is by no means a failing community. If people have issues with a player's activity not being enough, or that threads are being dropped, aren't we supposed to feel comfortable approaching a mod so that it can be discussed?

Putting all of these questions up here just makes me wonder why I am even trying to stay in the game.

I have a different issue, actually, and that's with the fact that the mods are tracking people who post "at the end of the month".

Not "on the 30th/31st, in the wee final hours of the night, trying to make AC". But "the end of the month".

I take issue with this because this system does not reward activity. This system says "making two private posts in the beginning of the month, and never actually tagging anywhere, is more valid than having a post on the 29th". It is one thing to track activity of people who are clearly just trying to eke by. It is a whole other ballgame to literally invalidate days of the month.

A post made on the 29th should not be less valid than one made on the 9th or the 19th. A post on the 1st, where no tags were replied to, should not be more valid than a post on the 30th, where the post count hits 75 before noon.

This is a legitimate issue, especially because there don't seem to be very many checks really in place for that system? I know that I once received an email about this for Lana Kane. The first month being counted against me was the month where she was introed. She was introed on the 22nd, and actually has a second post for the month as well, on the 31st. The second month, her first post was on the 16th, and her second was on the 28th. The third month was a legitimate slip in activity, because I started a new job that month, but she still had two posts -- it didn't matter that it was the first time there was actually a problem. I was on some watchlist because I had the gall to make posts after some arbitrary date.

I think this is actually creating more work for the mods than it is of solving any activity problems. It's fine to keep a list of who posts only in the final hours of the month, but isn't it more important to monitor the upkeep of posts? Why is it that a private post early in the month is worth more than an active post at the end of the same month? Why does the latter necessitate someone being "watched"? If anything, shouldn't we be tracking people who make one line, private posts? That seems like more of an activity issue to me.

To paraphrase from the AC post: Perhaps (in both comms) the main poster(s) could be tagged with a !character x, and then the commenters just with their normal tags?

This would be for tracking activity. One of the big complaints I know about this is as follows: We have so many tags used, have a paid account for the main comm to deal with that, and we still have tags for basically every character here from game opening. To get two for each character active in game would mean necessitating the loss of old tags for characters no longer in game, starting with ones not here for some time. Based on the general number floating around, let's say we'd need... roughly seven hundred tags to account for characters currently in game -- one that is such as "!character x", and one that is simply "character x"!

Possible solutions to that include: Indexing old journal names to a character list, deleting old tags, and then for those wishing to read back, searching by journal name. With LiveJournal allowing this search function, it could free up tags to use in the current game environment, without sacrificing the ability to read back on old threads/characters/etc.

But that's work!: It is, and there's two of us at least willing to do that. This wouldn't be an instantaneous change.

But that's work to look up!: How often do you go back and review old tags as it is? The list can be set up to have a link that does the searching for you!

But I have another issue: Speak on it! That's what discussion is for!

Reasoning behind this kind of change/adaptation: accounts for all activity a person tags their character for in a given month. Makes clicking on two tags give quick answers to character activity. There are other benefits but I am distracted and liable to forget them right now.

There are also other issues! Please bring them up, folks!

I don't think this goes anywhere specific, but what's going to happen to the players being held accountable for it right now? Are they going to be able to slide by this time or what's going on? No matter which way the discussion goes, they are kind of got the bad end of the bargain.

Edited 2011-10-01 23:24 (UTC)

I don't know if this has been asked already -- forgive me, I woke up from a nap and am still groggy and trying to figure out what just happened.

HOWEVER!

For AC, I was part of a small team that used to help out with it and it was run by Jenn (I'm not sure who does it now). What happened to us? Are we no longer AC helpers? Because I see some comments of, "the mods don't have time to read everything (posts/logs)" but I'm under the belief that if the helpers were given the usual list, we could all check the quality/quantity of posts so that way one or two people aren't left to deal on their own? Personally, I don't mind. It sounds like the mods are having difficulty doing this and I thought this is where we, AC helpers, chipped in.

I believe this was brought up in the How's the Game? But now I can't find it, so I will ask here:

Will backtags that extend into the current month count for the AC check? I can understand why they wouldn't if they were few in number, but if you had a lot, shouldn't that count for something? At least if you were currently on the list for needs-more-tags.

I know determining a quantity/quality would raise a whole 'nother issue, but those tags do take time. I don't want it to be an excuse, but a fallback in case things happen.

This is a discussion that's been needed for a while now. Glad that it's taking place. Definitions of "good activity" have been hazy in places for a while now. I hope this leads to a clear, widely agreed upon definition that works for as many players as possible.

/goes to read threads & give input now

Threaded | Flat

WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD COUNT FOR A POST?

WHAT SHOULD CONSTITUTE THREAD SIZE?

WHAT SHOULD CONSTITUTE THREAD QUALITY?

HOW MUCH SHOULD THE MODS/PLAYERS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR?

HOW SHOULD A THREAD ON A LOG BE JUDGED?