paradisaooc | ACTIVITY CHECK DISCUSSION

Entry tags:

important,
mod post

ACTIVITY CHECK DISCUSSION

Hey guys!

So there's been some confusion and disagreement about what should/should not count for activity check, what is counted where, etc. So this is a post where we'd like to discuss revamping the activity check system with you! Once we can get a clear idea of what everyone feels is fair, it will make it easier for us to have a clear system where everyone understands the activity requirements desired of each character in Paradisa.

SECTIONS:

What do you think should count for a post?
What should constitute thread "size"?
What should constitute comment "quality"?
How much should the mods be responsible for? The players?
How should a thread on a log be judged?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It happens! But sometimes it comes to us second-hand, or it's something that people have admitted to "feeling bothered by" but don't contact the other player to discuss it with them - which, I feel, is why some of these tracking things we've been doing originated. There are players who don't feel comfortable talking to castmates sometimes, for various reasons - and in the interest of keeping the game fun for everyone, we've tried to monitor some of that where we can. Do you feel, then, that we should back off and encourage more coming to us when there's a castmate/squatter/etc. problem?

I agree actually -- I don't think that there's an easy way to slap numbers on it. But if we don't, then people also say that they're worried about not knowing if they have enough, or that they don't like us judging on a case by case basis.

I brought it up in another comment, that by adding numbers or even listing off all of these 'qualifiers' you're setting up a definition of what a Paradisa roleplayer should be and I fear that this will only create a sense of "not good enough" among players or potential applicants.

I would certainly like to encourage more of people feeling like they can come to a moderator with activity concerns. I think that how your game members feel about a certain player and how active they are can sometimes make a much greater impression about what someone is doing or not doing.

I think that most of us who track our activity/tag count on plurks can see how much our fellow members participate. I also think that if there is a problem and a cast-mate doesn't feel comfortable going to that person then they should definitely feel like they can go to a mod. This sense that "there needs to be X number of complaints before they do anything" probably needs to go away, personally.

I think that if there is a concern, then it should be brought to the player immediately. It might not be to punish or penalize them, but perhaps to ask them: "Hey, we've gotten someone worried that you're not spreading your character out there enough." Then the player can present proof of that activity or discuss with the mod what the situation is with them.

Maybe it's a rough spot and they don't want to take a hiatus because this game is helping keep them distracted. Maybe they weren't aware that people felt this way.

I think the notion that "I can't complain because I'll be the only one" is something that just means people keep quiet even when there is a genuine concern.

Might this bring a lot of people into the spotlight for their activity? Possibly, but I would sooner have people concerned that I'm not around enough -- than mods deciding by some arbitrary number that I don't do enough.

I agree - but I'm not sure how, exactly, to promote that feeling and make sure that people will do that. If you have any suggestions for promoting a more open atmosphere where people feel like they should contact us, then that would be great -- because it's something we've been trying to work on for awhile.

Makes sense. I completely agree -- I'm just worried that people won't take advantage of the system of contacting us about it, simply because of past experiences with players.

I'm not sure how to really implement something like that -- I mean, other than just taking the time to talk to the members of the game?

I mean, you do the How's the Game as a large forum, which is great because we all can read ideas and comment to them. But maybe as a project you can actually talk to the members on a one-to-one basis?

Just for a trial run and not as a continual thing, but just to see if there's anything that a specific player is having issues with. Not waiting for them to come to you with a problem, but going to them to see if there is an issue.

If all the members know that you are going to be talking to ALL the members over the next month, two months, whatever - then they might feel more comfortable discussing problems they've had. They might know that this is for the betterment of the game and the community and not to get anyone in trouble.

I was a big supporter of the "Buddy" system in Paradisa to help guide the new members, but I know that the odds of a new member wanting to speak up and say that they were having trouble was rare. I suggested just assigning a buddy to all the brand new players and letting it be the buddy's responsibility to come to the new player. Introduce themselves and say 'Hey, if you have any problems you can come to me. I'll totally help you out.'

I mean, I don't want to relate this to high-school, because we all know that this tends to feel that way a lot of the time, but in high school there were guidance counselors and peer counselors that were meant to be the buffer between the students and the teachers. Why can't the mods taken on that sort of role in wanting to help the community vs police it?

Why not when you notice a player posting at the end of the month a lot instead of making a note and saying 'tsk tsk' you just got a black mark on your record - actually going to that member and talking to them. Maybe they are in need of some help. Maybe they aren't feeling comfortable in the game. Maybe you can assign them a CR buddy to help them get more CR.

I think there are a lot more things that you can do that wouldn't be seen as being the BOSS but as being a facilitator into improving the game.

I mean, I wouldn't mind at all taking up a role in trying to have my characters buddy up with another character to get them CR.

I was in the process of planning monthly "mixers" in the Lux to help people meet new CR where I have the staff of the Lux invite people from their floor. Small groups that are ICly invited to meet and greet vs just throwing up a party post and hoping people attend.

That's an interesting idea, actually. There are a lot of muns and it might take awhile, but just shooting everyone a "hey, what's up, how are you doing" seems like a nice thing to do to me.

Yeah, I really liked the buddy system too and I'm not sure that people have been taking advantage of it as much as they should :(

I absolutely am more interested in trying to help as opposed to, you know, cracking down on everyone etc etc. I think it's just that in the past there's been a lot of complaints about things that could be easily fixed were we to keep a better eye out - and ... well, it's kind of escalated.

The mixers sound awesome. *^* I really like that idea.

I know that personally, I have never had an issue with going to a mod about a question. I will talk the ears off of you guys whenever I have a suggestion. It's probably leftover from when I was a mod here, because I do care a lot about this game and the people that are in it.

I just see also that whenever these discussions take place there is always some perception that discussing it - regardless of tone or intent behind the comments - is not a good thing. This is probably another reason why people are so hesitant to come to a mod.

I think that everyone has good ideas in how to make this game better and how to make it succeed. I for one prefer a game that is constant on how it removes people that don't post at all vs ones that try to make an effort, but there has to be a limit where you draw the line at what you can or can't fix on an AC level.

Provide open log posts where the activity in them counts for everyone that tags into it. Give people open CR chances that are more personal and less "look! another elevator post!". CR memes are great and I'm glad that there will be a post to coincide with the most recent one -- but I would love to see people rewarded for being active and seeking out open logs to post and trying to put their characters INTO scenes with people instead of just responding to a spilled glass of water on a page.

I make open log posts because I want my CR to count for both people. I want that person to be invested in the relationship that they are building. Log tags for me 70% of the time don't get dropped, they get concluded, because there isn't that odd lull of -- "I'm talking to you over a magic book... while I'm brushing my teeth... forever."

I just used the log comm more these past two months because I wanted the CR that I built to be face-to-face and so that's how I chose to do my activity.

Edited 2011-10-02 00:24 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear that. ♥ It makes me really sad that people feel like they can't be comfortable contacting us, or that we're intimidating. It's not my intention at all :(

Hmm. Any suggestions on how to fix that? I am always, always open to listen, even if I disagree - and we wouldn't have put up the post to discuss if we didn't, well, want discussion. But I certainly don't want people to feel like they shouldn't be giving us input or feedback at any time.

Yeah, that makes sense. I think the biggest issue with log activity is that it seems .... easy to take advantage of the system of just tagging a few times into two logs and that's that. While it might be the equivalent, word-wise, to a regular journal post on the community - what about people who want to interact with that character who didn't get their log or post tagged? Even if you try to contact the person, there's no guarantee that they'll post to the CR meme, or that they'll go through with plans that you made, etc. etc. -- which is why I like it when people post open posts (logs or otherwise). But if someone flies by just by tagging only two people all month .... it's a little unfair to anyone who wanted to play with that person but wasn't "chosen", you know?

I absolutely don't have a problem with log activity, or doing logs, or anything like that (personally, anyways), but speaking from the standpoint of someone who's interested in getting new CR - if they don't tag me, then I'm pretty much screwed for that month, and have to wait until I spy them doing something where I can jump in or tag them in some other way. That's my thought on it, anyways.

I think the mindset that you state right there is implying that you are expecting people to take advantage of that.

As I pointed out in an earlier comment of mine, two of the logs that I posted up in Aug and September both had over 100 comments to them. One of them had over 200 comments to it.

Almost all the threads that were started in them were either concluded or are still in progress. I am still tagging to a log post that was made in the beginning of August with Harmony and Angel.

My opinion is that people who put up logs aren't looking for an "easy out" for AC. Granted, we can joke OOCly that it's easy to make activity by doing such - but we never skimp on that activity. The threads continue, months after the log starts. I personally don't drop tags. I will tag back until they drop the tag on me or until the scene reaches a good closing. When I make log posts I make them with the intent of developing CR not just scraping by my AC.

If you, as a mod, are sitting here going "But they will just cheat their way out of their AC" that is setting up a negative connotation with the logs comm and making it seem like there's no point in tagging to the logs at all because it won't count.

As for being screwed if no one tags you -- that happens all over the place and it happens even more when there are a plethora of posts all about the same thing. There is no perfect solution to getting a post that gets all the replies, but if you aren't trying -- and you aren't actively putting up log posts where your character is out doing things, then how can you expect other people to check the log comm as much as they check the main comm.

It's all about habits and if people want to break them or not.

ETA: blarg I think I'm reading too many comments. I see your note now about the unfair to the chosen person thing. I think most of what I said up there still applies, just not so much the negative slight against doing the logs vs doing journal entries.

Also re the whole CR meme and no one following through with plans, it's another system that will either work or not work. I personally don't use it anymore because it always felt like a LOT of people saying "YES I WANT CR" but not a lot of follow-through. I think I have gotten more CR from being on plurk and seeing people link their posts than CR memes themselves being effective.

Edited 2011-10-02 01:02 (UTC)

It's less that I'm worried people will take advantage of it, and more that I worry that people just ... won't get to interact with other people as much as they want to, if that makes sense. And it's not just the logs comm, either -- it's a problem too on the main comm. If someone posts filters to people all month long and never an open post, then there's never an opportunity for new CR/outside people.

You're right -- there is no perfect solution, and this is a problem that kind of goes above and beyond activity and more into willingness to tag around, but yeah. If I do see a person trying to pass on, say, two or three small log threads alone (and not just once, but consistently - obviously, people are busy sometimes, or just don't have much they feel like doing), then it just makes me feel like they aren't interested in having other people tag them.

And it's okay -- sorry for the slowness, poor weather does not a good satellite internet connection make.

I totally feel you on the poor weather + a dish = AHHHHHH WHY DID MY SIGNAL DROP AGAIN??!!

Like I've expressed a few times, my own methods in the community are not everyone else's. I try to rotate my characters around so that I don't feel like I'm focusing on one more than the other consistently. Some characters post to the journal easier than others, but that doesn't mean that I'm not tagging around either.

I was concerned that my app wouldn't get approved because of my activity, to be honest. I went through everything for September that I could remember and I was upset that I hadn't been around as much. But then I also remembered that I was on a hiatus for the first part of the month.

I think that as long as the player-base is aware of their activity, aware of where they are a weaker player or where their character doesn't "fit" so to speak into the usual cookie-cutter shape of a Paradisa Journal member, they try to work around that. They post to other people more than make their own posts and they make logs to put their characters out there.

I guess, I don't see the "minimum" activity being the consistent pass for the players in the game. I go by what my own activity is, by how many threads I have going at a given time, and the fact that I do average about 50 tags a day coming in that I'm doing good. Can I do better? Sure, but we all can do that. It just will depend on real life and the situations coming up.

I think, personally, that the players that do have more active characters, that do make a lot more journal posts or have the social characters that thrive in the game - could do more ICly to help out those that aren't good at those things. Throwing a party is not always the answer though and if there were times where you signed up for a CR meme and you said we're going to have an event on THIS DATE and then get people to sign up for it, you might get more random CR in that post than you would throwing up an elevator is stuck post.

Jo has the Lux so I try to involve that in my posts to open it up to people who are hungry/thirsty. Now, Harmony, Fred, and Cordelia have Caritas. Karaoke nights could happen in the log comm -- and if these things aren't repeated constantly it might open up more people to try and find people to do things with.

IDK - I will always have ideas for open posts and things that people can do. Bowling Tournament, Mini Golf Classic, Field-Games (potato sack race where you get paired up randomly) - things that don't have to be world plots, but can still invite anyone to come play without it being a "Mingling in the party again" type thread.

SOB yep. ;; Oh, cable internet, I miss you so.

Yeah, and that's honestly what I try to do with Ino - this past month being the exception because she was away from the castle. She's a social butterfly and she's willing to drag more antisocial characters out to do things. I realize not everyone has the time or the will to go out of the way to do stuff, but yeah, I do wish that more people were willing to sort of reach out. We are all a community, we're supposed to help each other. ;; But in the same vein it's hard to get some of these characters involved if you can never find a place to tag them and start some CR, so it's ... yeah, just a big cycle of predicament. Other than promoting the CR meme and throwing up open posts for gatherings and stuff, it's just hard to figure out how, exactly, to motivate people to do that. ;;

One thing that might work, just for a trial basis, might be to partner everyone up?

Most of us know who is friends with who, so we could easily avoid the "usual" twosomes, and we could just see about making new CR with the characters that those two people have for that month.

Then! Once we are familiar with this person's characters we could recommend someone else in the game for them to get CR with. Maybe create some sort of CR phone tree of sorts?

It made more sense in my head... than when I tried to write it out.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

ACTIVITY CHECK DISCUSSION

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject