HOW'S THE GAME?

[paradisamods]

It's time for another round of Game Discussion, also known as

HOW'S THE GAME?

Here we come together to discuss the game, its plots, the settings, and just about anything we can think of that we'd like to talk about, expand upon, improve, change, etc.

This is not an HMD for players and their characters; this should be about the game's function as a whole and not the people in it. If there is something you feel is absolutely necessary to address that involves a specific person, please IM a mod first to discuss it. We can be reached at valawie (Valerie), fan of todd (TF), or never die ftw (Ashley).

Anonymous will be left off for this round. Sock journals are allowed, but you will have to request comm access to post with them.

Here are the sections that we've come up with. Add your own, and we'll edit it into the list. :)

➜ HOW'S THE STAFF
➜ RETURNING CHARACTERS
➜ THE CITY AND WORLDBUILDING
➜ ORIGINAL CHARACTERS
➜ PLOTTING 101
➜ APPLICATION SAMPLES

Comments

ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[paradisamods]

After our April Fool's prank, it came to our attention that there are some that would genuinely be interested in having original characters in the world of Paradisa.

The game has only allowed fandom characters since its beginning, but would you be interested in including original characters in the game?

We'd like to give people the chance to discuss the possibility. Give us your thoughts!

[cheerupemoborg]

Personally, I'd rather we not have OC or even AU characters. It totally throws off my groove.

I may not know much about, say, the Boondocks Saints or Tales of Symphonia but a cursory glance at Wikipedia can easily solve that. An OC character, even from an established franchise like DC Comics, would make things a bit too confusing.

You also have to take into account what kind of limitations there'd need to be. You don't want some silly hax character, but at the some time you wouldn't want to exclude anyone's ideas from the apping process.

Tellin' ya, it's a headache waiting to happen.

[dontpatr0nizeme]

I wouldn't mind it, with limits and careful consideration.(As a note, I'm not the type to app OCs.)

The only thing is: I'd really rather not see fandom OCs. And make it a requirement that there is a detailed setting and history for the character, as well as clearly spelled out abilities.

+1

[fanstheflame]

Yes, I think the word count should be higher on personality, with the addition of a history setting. Also, if possible, people apping should be able to submit writing samples that were NOT written in a Paradisa context - short stories, sample chapters, that sort of thing.

I've got one or two OCs who I would absolutely adore testing out in this sort of setting, but I know that it's a VERY touchy subject for some people, so I've mostly stayed mum about it.

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[superheroine]

While I am not particularly enthused with OCs on an OOC level (potential disputes), I don't have a problem with fandom OCs as long as they don't claim relation/connection to any main characters or force any "personal canon" on canon characters. I think the vast majority of fandoms have a place for OCs unconnected to any main cast, whether it's because it's par for the course (ie, DC and Marvel introduce new characters every month) or because there's just an immense amount of room for them (ie, any series that features a large or international organization is bound to have room for agents and workers and whatever). Universes aren't populated by just the visible cast, so I don't mind fleshing out those universes more. Having a fandom universe also acts as a measuring stick for how well a character works for their universe, and all.

That said, I acknowledge that while fandoms may have bucketloads of space for OCs to fit in without disruption, some muns from those casts/canons may have no interest in dealing with it at all. It would be a hassle to do a "per canon basis" thing, too, it's difficult to say "x cast is cool with OCs, y cast is not."

I am completely disinterested in original-universe OCs, largely because there is no measuring stick for them other than personal taste for writing.

Overall, though, I think this may be a "not broken, don't fix it" situation. Do some people want OCs? Sure. But the game's been going for 5.5 years and the demand for OCs has always been so incredibly low that I don't think it's worth the hassle of implementing/keeping up with.

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[ino]

I would be cool with this, actually. I don't think fandom OCs would be such a good idea because some people might not want to deal with them, etc., but I would really love just regular original characters. Obviously, the app would have to be much longer and more in depth in several ways to give the mods something to judge on, and I think it would be a good idea to ask those who app original characters to keep the app in their profile so that others can understand the character too.

But other than that, I have no objections. :) It would just have to be monitored a little differently compared to fandom characters.

+1

[gottaknockhard]

Seconding this exact opinion. I've played with some really great OCs, so I have no issue if it was done this way.

+1

[encryptedlock]

This essentially. If a clear background is written and kept posted in public on the character's journal, heck, that's more than many obscrure characters have. I'd also amke a request that if they're from original fiction that's posted publicly, the player/author link to that as well so we can learn more about the character! I've enjoyed interacting with OCs in other games.

+1

[workaphilic]

MY THOUGHTS. It would take some extra work on the mod's side of things, but provided they're willing and able to do that, I don't see the harm.

+1

[loisfuckinglane]

Yes to OCs as well, if they're held to a high standard.

No to fandom OCs, mostly because I think it's unfair to ask fandom characters to be forced to deal with someone who could potentially have had ~interactions~ with them in their fan canon.

+1

[confidente]

+1

[accidentalrebellion]

I'm totally down with this.

+1

[i_got_this]

Done right, this could be really awesome!

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[seventeenth]

I don't have much of an opinion on whether or not they should be allowed at all. But you do allow OCs I think it would be best to stick to just original universe OCs and disallow fandom OCs as a general rule. It could work to only allow fandom OCs from canons that are specifically geared towards OCs (WoW, the Elder Scrolls, table top games, most pre-Dragon Age western RPGs, etc), though.

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[encryptedlock]

I'd also be OK with OCs from that type of blank slate universe as long as they don't have ties to major NPCs.

[gentleidealist]

I'm not usually one against change, but in this case, I feel it would affect the atmosphere of the game. Paradisa has never allowed OCs, and I think it should stay that way. There are a few reasons-- most of which people have already touched upon. I think according to the basic rules of the plot it would make sense for AUs and OCs to exist, but it's still not something we need to implement.

There are plenty of spooky jamjar/similar games that allow OCs. Polychromatic is one. I just don't think it's necessary to deal with that can of worms this far along in the game's lifetime. It's going to cause a lot of butthurt on both sides, because people are possessive about their OCs and hate getting told no, and then there are people who refuse to play with OCs, and blah de blah... and regulating them... and the fluid nature of non-published canon...

Sorry, but no.

[waterproofed]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I will say a definite "no" to the fandom OCs. I've never really played with many non-fandom OCs but just from SWS threading I always feel kind of awkward tagging them.

And honestly, one of the things I've always loved about Paradisa was how it introduces me to new fandoms and allows me to do the same for other players. I'd rather be curious about obscure characters from a canon than about OCs, ya know?

[akito]

Non-fandom OCs, yes. Fandom OCs? No.

I've played in a game that allowed <me OCs in it before (characters from a game universe's "past") and that was also a very interesting concept. It might be a neat idea to keep in mind for the far future in terms of 'world building' things.

[huntersdaughter]

I have written a lot of OCs myself and I have played with a lot of well-written OCs in other games and in other formats.

Even though there is the capability of creating a good OC and fleshing them out is completely possible -- I'm not sure that Paradisa needs these characters. As others have mentioned it's a very difficult thing to put a set standard to. How much world history is enough? OCs are completely original content usually and with that comes a lot of freedom to change and adapt that character to whatever the author needs/wants from their character.

I'm not saying that would happen, but I feel like it's such an open forum that it would be too hard to judge how valid a character is and when you have an application process, it can create a very unmanageable environment for accepting and declining characters.

I think Paradisa has done fine without OCs and we have even tried a side comm that was for OCs only, which didn't have very much activity. I'm of the mind that there is no reason to fix what is not broken.

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[detectivegenius]

I don't like the idea of AU characters, unless they come from a different universe in an already established AU and that's already allowed so.

I don't really care for fandom OCs either because that's kind of making people in that fandom interact with the OC? With an original universe OC, people can chose if they want to reply to that character or not.

I'm not against OCs but I think if they were to be allowed there should be some standards. I was in a game that had a ton of people who were royalty and/or the sole savior of their world and such and such. Not everyone has to be a renegade princess or an unstoppable bad ass that no one can stand up to or something like that. I don't have a problem with people having some super awesome power but when it starts getting into crazy bad ass powers that I get a little leery. I think that a very well thought out personality section is a must. I know sometimes World Information can vary, since some OCs are from worlds that are pretty much the same as ours with a slightly different history and some worlds are from totally different places.

I agree with keeping the app in the profile so people can read the information easily too. I was discussing this with someone else and talked about the troubles I've had with OCs before and they mentioned infomodding and fourth-walling. I think infomodding should be watched out for too. Like I was in a game where an OC was a Batman fan, and she knew every little thing about Tim, such as the dream he had about his mother when he had the clench sickness and the exact words his dad said when he died. That was partly my fault because I agreed to it and walked into it without really thinking about the consequences, but it made me really leery about people who make OCs who are fans of canon characters. I'm not sure what the rule is for fourth-walling here, I don't see it on the rules page (maybe I missed it somewhere). I've just been avoiding it for the most part. I think I remember being told it wasn't allowed when I first joined... but that was six months ago so my memories a bit rusty lol. If fourth-walling isn't allowed, then that would take care of that concern.

I think unique well thought out OC characters that aren't like... godmodes or Mary Sue/Gary Stus, characters with clear flaws, would be okay to be allowed but like someone else said, there are other games to app OCs to so I'm ambivalent about it as far as OCs in Paradisa.

Re: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[foolreversed]

Fandom OCs are usually a really awful idea so please no. All or nothing I say. If they like the other canon's world so much they should just come up with something a little similar.

I would not dismiss the idea of OCs full heartedly. I kind of have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, the rp world as we know it right now is becoming much more open to OCs. More games are allowing them, especially the new ones. I myself can think of one of my OCs I would not mind playing here if that were the case.

On the other hand though, Para is one of the oldest games in the journal rp world. To change like this after nearly 6(?) years? I feel like that might not work out so well. It's fine and dandy for new games to do it, but I've got mixed feelings about a place like this.

Don't get me wrong, I've sometimes wished I could app one of my OCs here but my wishes don't necessarily coincide with what would be best for the game or the players.

[ironlady]

I have to say I'm not all that eager for that rule to change. I've played with some good OCs in the past, but I've played with even more bad ones. In my experience it is the terrible ones that are both the hardest to get rid of and most disruptive to the game. I feel like it's asking for unnecessary trouble in a way too since there is no shortage of games that allow OCs for people to app into with them and always have.

Since it's come up with the others a very hard no on fandom OCs. There are plenty of canon characters to choose from in most stories and I imagine it's awkward for any cast to deal with.

[lesyay]

As a mod in a large game that allows OCs, some points from a modly perspective:

Sometimes, OCs can be really good. Some of the most popular characters in the game, ICly and OOCly, are original characters. They're well-written, well thought out, and a pleasure to tag and read.

The problem with OCs is in judging the application. There's a lot more to consider. As a mod, you don't know the OC like the author does. You have no way of researching into it, and you pretty much have to accept the character's samples unless it directly counters their personality section.

Another thing: how do you judge the character's background? Can you reject a character based on their past being a bucket-load of clichés? I don't judge many original characters because I'm harsh on that sort of thing and the judging process for my game isn't that harsh. How will you be able to judge that sort of thing? What policies would be in place to judge, say, a good-hearted assassin who's being tormented by their demonic parent for no readily apparent reason? (Not an actual example, but pretty close to some apps we've received.)

So while having OCs can be a good thing, you really need to set down the ground rules for them and how harshly you're going to be judging them.

[disciplines]

Personally? I would be for it. Both OCs and fandom OCs. It could also open room for characters that have the problem of not enough be app'd as fandom OCs, as some other games allow, provide they show what little of them actually does exist in canon. (I myself play a lot of obscure or niche characters, or even just side characters with minimal canon, and it's hard to do sometimes, so I know I'd appreciate seeing at least that implemented under the promise that I'd behave with them.)

Regardless of if you give them a go or not, there's a lot to consider. Let me explain why I'm so gung ho.

The thing is, regardless of whether a character is an OC or not, if you don't know them, you'll have to treat them as you going in canonblind. If you can do it with other characters or series you don't know or would prefer you didn't, you can do it with an OC. I see people suggesting that players have open posts where you can find info on the character and world much like a wiki for any other character or series. I would be more than willing to do this, and I bet many others would.

I also see the issue of people thinking a lot of them are horrible. Pardon my bluntness, but this comes across as IC/OOC bleeding. Like with any other character being played poorly, be it actual characterization, blandness, or just technical/grammar issues, you'd have to bring it up with the player. A lot of us who play OCs and worldbuild would actually appreciate this; I know I would. Anything to improve them. I personally don't like a lot of bigger series people play from, but that's just personal taste. I try not to let it hamper my tagging ability. Some of my best CR has been from series or with characters I personally cannot stand. However, Alleyne is not me. She would not know this or have the same tastes as me.

Our characters also have no concept of what is an OC and what isn't; just the different worlds, and technically where an OC comes from would fall under this jurisdiction.

I would be up for being judged much more harshly and the requirements being more or even vastly different in general. Be it rules about using PBs of characters in the castle or not, just better app requirements, or the promise you won't fourth wall and/or canon puncture. If nerfing needs to happen, so be it. If there would wind up being a higher rejection rate in general due to this, so be it.

It comes down to a lot of objectivity/subjectivity issues, but I would not be averse to this, or perhaps even helping out with OC apps would it be put in place. If it isn't added, I would understand. It wouldn't change how I feel about the game. However, in the end, there's not much different between OCs and a canon character, beyond being a bit more stringent. Everyone was someone OC at some point, after all. Perhaps require more samples and more background detail just to be sure? Perhaps require two losses just to be sure? I don't know what would work, unfortunately.

Whatever it comes down to I'll support. As someone who does a fuckload of worldbuilding and character writing, I'd possibly app an OC were it viable (it's mostly an issue of icons for me). If not, I know where to go and there's no hard feelings. Someone did mention we once upon a time had a separate comm to play with the concept of Para with OCs; it was eventually taken and evolved further and is used to this day, so I know there's definite interest in this concept beyond just a few of us.

I apparently have a lot of OC feels. But really, I see no harm. If shit happens, let's take care of it on a case by case basis, same as any other player or canon or character.

Now with more than just some +1s

[fanstheflame]

Atma said everything I've thought about this since ... well, forever. My official stance is "if it happens I'll be ecstatic, if it doesn't, it's not the end of the world", but ...

I see a lot of people saying "It's been like this forever, you'll essentially ruin my game", and as one of the older players, it makes me sad. Part of what makes this game great and so long-running is that it's changed in small ways over time: the expansion of the world, the changing of some of the rules (Dead Zone extensions, the ability to re-app people with memories, etc).

I don't think we're ready for OCs YET after such a "big" change as reapping with memories ... I think we need to adjust to something like that a little more before moving on to something this big. But it's very clear that the majority of people who've responded to this section are for NON-fandom OCs that are well-thought out with extensive description, so it's not entirely impossible that it could happen.

I see the points on both sides, and what we all have to remember is that ultimately, it's the mods' call. I can tell that Val, Ashley, and TF have already put thought into the issue: if they hadn't, it wouldn't be up for discussion here.

We already have some other things that need ironing out before we even bring OCs into it, though, and THAT'S my issue. I'll ... get into that in another comment, now that I've had a day or so to really think about it and put words to it.