paradisaooc | HOW'S THE GAME?

Man, I have honestly never posted to a HTG, so if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know! Otherwise, I'm just gonna charge right ahead.

I'd love to see IC Inboxes utilized as part of the game, and even maybe counted for AC. Let me really quickly run through some of the pros/cons here:

PROS-
1) It would seriously help with CR building. One of my inboxes in another game was created in July and has 600 comments -- lots of those threads are short, tiny little things that don't merit a post. 'Hey, did you hear the fireworks,' or 'hey, you weren't attacked by the monster, were you?' There are lots of chitchatty conversation, and it really helps solidify CR in tiny ways.

2) It would also cut back a lot of the locked posts that Para has. Look at the front page right now - those three posts were all in a row, and all locked. Even if these posts only hit a few comments, they count as an entire AC proof for the poster.. but not the commenter. These really make the game look a lot more cliquey than it is, and generates the impression that building CR can be difficult, especially when you scroll and see locked post, locked post, locked post.

CONS-
1) There is a usual worry that with IC inboxes, especially if they count for activity, means that characters will ONLY tag their CR. That's a valid concern, but look at the image I linked above; it people want to do that, they can already simply make a post locked to a single person, and then the comment count doesn't even matter. If I made a post locked to a CR person, that's one proof counted; in order to get the same AC proof in an IC inbox, I would need a thread that's at least a total of 50 comments long. In the end of it, if people are determined not to branch out, they're not going to branch out; the inclusion of IC inboxes won't change that.

So, in silly summation, IC inboxes are awesome and y'all should consider them. Threads like THIS and THIS and THIS are the reasons I love them, and they let people build and solidify CR so easily, especially when I don't want to make post after post after post. At this very moment, I'd really like to have Lee speak with Joel about Tess, and then to ask after another character he met in the last post, but I don't want to clog the front page of the comm with a post that won't necessarily notify whoever I'm trying to get ahold of. :(

Thanks for listening!

Just to clarify regarding those locked posts between two people: if both participants have their character tags on it, I've been giving both characters credit for the post since it's exactly like a closed log; just two people doing something. If someone isn't getting credit for a post like that it's likely because they don't have their character tag on it and I didn't see it come activity check.

Oh! Well, that makes sense. :)

Also, I am sorry that Lee's default icon is grumpy as hell, that's not meant to be a reflection of tone, lmfao.

Edited 2013-09-14 21:29 (UTC)

Haha, that's fine!

Most games with IC mailboxes are games centered around networks based on computers or devices each character is equipped with. Since Paradisa deals with journals instead of communicators, the question becomes where these IC inboxes would be.

We have CastleNET, the player-built Internet of Paradisa, but not everyone uses it. I believe the cell phone tower Tony Stark set up is still in town??? (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so there's also that. But again, not everyone uses or even knows what a cell phone is.

I guess what I'm saying is, how would the IC mailboxes be set up?

It could simply be what happens when someone filters something to a single person. The system is already theoretically in place. "IC Inboxes" would just be a way to move them off of the main community so we're not cluttering it with things that the game at large has no way to interact with. That way I (and other people!) wouldn't have to do the worry dance of "is this important enough to merit a whole post, should I think of some generic BS to unfilter to add to it so it doesn't look exclusive, should I just PM the mun and handwave it" dance.

I can see how that would help keep the community free of "clutter," but the downside might become a community that looks like a ghost-town. I personally don't mind seeing filtered posts, as I like to read others' interactions. But if others would like to see this system set up I wouldn't mind discussing it more. c:

(no subject)

rightchoices - 2013-09-14 22:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

putuporshutup - 2013-09-14 22:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

princelyspirit - 2013-09-14 22:10 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

lord_wizard - 2013-09-15 02:28 (UTC) - Expand

It might not be a bad idea... However, I'm not terribly fond of IC inboxes that are kept in the character's personal journals.(Journals can get cluttered if it's used/has been used in multiple games, for instance.) Maybe something like a IC inbox community where everyone sets up one for their character would be a good option?

Though, to be honest, sometimes locked posts are a necessary evil. IC inbox posts wouldn't be useful for things like filtered posts to more than one character for discussion of certain things. See stuff like group filters or "all people meeting this criteria, even if I might not know them or know that they do ICly" filters.

Edit: Note, I'm not even touching on the topic of IC feasibility and how it might work though. More just commenting on the idea in and of itself. I'm not a logistics person.

Edited 2013-09-14 21:50 (UTC)

I'd be fine with something like that! I'm not necessarily advocating that "all locked posts MUST BE removed from the comms immediately!" or something like that, but more just along the lines of -- right now, at this very moment, I really want Lee to message Joel something along the lines of "Your friend Tess comes on strong, doesn't she?" He doesn't want to have a conversation about it; the thread itself would probably end after 5-6 comments, but that's an example of something I'd love to drop in an IC inbox but would feel bad about making a whole comm post for.

I'm no stranger to wanting to make posts like that and the feelings of "Why should this be a full post?". I've tried to make it a policy of mine to add something open to my locked posts, but it's not always feasible and doesn't always work.

The idea in and of itself isn't a bad one.

As someone with characters in another game that utilizes IC Inbox posts, I can see where you're coming from!

However, in a game like Para where the characters' main form of communication IS an actual journal and not a device such as a tablet or communicator, it doesn't seem like having an "IC Inbox" would make a lot of sense... when in practicality from a setting standpoint, a journal post with a private filter acts as an IC Inbox.

Still me, just on my phone!

Like I said above- functionally, they are the exact same as filtered posts, but if they were located somewhere, I personally feel like they would be really good for quick, little threads that a person doesn't want to throw onto the post. I really want to hit up joel, and we're gonna use an ic inbox and just accept it won't count for ac, since I want to leave a comment to him-- but I know the whole thread won't last longer than four or five commented.

I quite like this idea too. There's been plenty of times where my char would like to have checked in/upon/or 'pinged' another char - but that char didn't have a current or up-to-date/relevant post in the comm at the time. Personally, I dislike locked posts and I'm not going to throw one up for the sake of a IC 'how are you or can you come here'.

For the sake of game schematics and the fact that characters carry around a journal, what about the idea of a communal 'flyleaf'? Each char that wants to use it, posts their own header to it perhaps - instant 'IC inbox' (a rose by any other name). A blanket OOC rule that if one of these quick message threads hits say 5-10 comments, take it to a post. Thoughts?

I guess I'm not really understanding the real need for another way of communicating when the journal has been what residents have relied on and its been the most effective. It's just a matter of OOC perception. We are never going to discourage people from posting quick posts for the sake of 5-10 comments. If that's what a character uses their journal for, that's what they use it for! To me, it just seems like extra work.

Maybe not discouraged, but I personally don't want to make 6-10 locked posts a month that never get longer than six or seven comments, which.is the kind of thing I use inboxes for.It's not breaking rules, but it feels like it would be inconsiderate. Sorry for weird formatting, on phone!

Edited 2013-09-15 01:47 (UTC)

Goodness, no, I certainly wouldn't want to discourage posting from the comm either. Myself, I'm hyper aware of not wanting to spam the comm though too, especially if it's a post that I know would merit a very tiny amount of comments to one char, or to leave a one-liner for the purpose of a quick message or a 'ping' to another char. :/ Also, in doing that, it would count as a proof for AC - in theory, I could lock a post to a char, with a link to a conversation somewhere else and not have to merit any replies at all.

I don't think I'm explaining well, can I try again? In seeing the comments above, what I took from them so far is that IC inboxes might be a good idea and help bolster CR, but there's some question on if it was agreed upon, how to present it ICly when chars don't communicate off of a network, but a paper journal. So a single communal post - to function as an actual "flyleaf blank page" in the journal itself. The post would then work in the same way as the Fourth Wall post did. If you want your char to have an IC inbox - post a header into that Flyleaf post. (I'm so sorry, I thought saying flyleaf would make it obvious that it was still journal communication ICly - just a place to stick these one-liners and float the 'IC Inbox' idea!)

I'm still trying to understand your suggestion, but I don't think I'm following too well, so forgive me! You're asking for a single flyleaf page where everyone jots quick notes to each other? I'm not sure how many would use that page if they can turn to a blank page in the journal to jot something down.

If anything, I would probably concede to doing something like CastleNET emails, since it's something that is already in play. It'd be optional and since they're short and sweet they probably wouldn't count for AC (or there would be limitations as someone suggested, which obvs would require further discussion since I personally am unfamiliar with using IC inboxes). Anyone interested would just have to figure out an IC reason their character would register for an email address and also run the risk of Crowley spamming them with Male Enchancement emails.

Back in the day, the Sherlock cast had a bunch of IC inboxes they used to contact each other, justified in-game as them all texting each other. I really, really liked it because it provided a quick way for us to thread out cast-specific things easily. Even if it isn't counted for AC, I think having them gamewide is a great idea.

We could even create a small plot for it since the journal system isn't really adapted to it. We have a bunch of tech-savvy characters who could create something, kind of like castlenet.

I don't really have an opinion either way about the inclusion of IC inboxes, but I'm just popping in here to say that having a tech-based inbox system would mostly limit it to characters who are technologically inclined. In games with a "network" based system, luddite characters need to learn how to use tech as a matter of course, since that's the way people communicate. But in Paradisa, characters communicate with the very low-tech journals... so why would a character who does not know how to use technology bother with learning how to use it if they can just use the journal for the same purpose?

That's a good point! I'm definitely not saying we have to do it that way, I was just brainstorming.

Realistically, we could just call IC inboxes a collection of private filters, so that people don't have to make whole posts with just private filters. I was just trying to think of a way to make it something to drum up CR and such.

You're definitely right, though, we'd want to make sure it would be something that everyone could take part in if they felt so inclined.

While IC Inboxes are awesome ideas in games that are structured in such a way that characters are given a tablet (a la Exsilium), a phone (like Vatheon) or, hell, are just connecting by their own tech (like DDD). But the key thing to remember in Paradisa is that they are using journals to communicate. Each new conversation adds pages to the journal and it's all in one central location where anyone and their aunt can see it unless it's filtered. It's not something that lends very well to an "inbox" scenario, as it were.

I understand that not everybody likes putting up filtered posts just to check in on people. I, myself, try to do it sparingly. If I do there are either 4-5 filters with an open spot at the end if they're feeling friendly or a general filter to all of the character's friends with a "hey I haven't heard from some of you in a while. How's everyone doing?" That way it's filtered but has a wide base for replies. The other alternative would be to just put it in the logs comm as a private two person log. Phoebe's out in Winchester and filters to Peter to check in, or something. I know that I myself generally think about logs as more leaning towards in person interactions but there's no reason why a private two person journal conversation can't be put there as well if you don't want to clutter up the main comm.

My biggest concern with an inbox system would be trying to work out the schematics of it with the existing tools at the residents' disposal. I understand the allure of throwing a random message that's not meant to go anywhere on someone's inbox just because, I've done it on other games. The thing is, writing something into the journal is like leaving a message for someone, anyway. If Nora filters to Mark with a doodle of a dick he might not see it for a few hours. When he's done whatever he's doing and finds it he might still reply or he could just stare at it, laugh, and go find her. I've seen plenty of threads with the emote [some time later] or something similar to express that the reply isn't coming immediately after the message. It just seems redundant to me to explicitly say that there's an inbox when, in essence, the journal itself already serves that purpose.

I think someone else mentioned CastleNet but I know there are systems on there for blogging and whatnot so if anyone's tech savvy enough to use those they're available, too. I know that only reaches a portion of the population but that would also be the portion who would understand the idea of an inbox, anyway. Someone from the Renaissance or Middle Earth or something might be more likely to write an actual letter and have it sent to someone's room, anyway.

All told I'm not saying that IC Inboxes aren't a good idea. I've used them and loved them in other games and they can be a lot of fun. I just don't think they're a good fit for Paradisa.

I'm in agreement with pretty much... all of this. Para just isn't really the place for it, I don't think. Which of course, doesn't stop anyone from setting them up anyway, it just... wouldn't count for AC I suppose?

I've been in games with inboxes in the past, and I honestly rarely used them. Currently, one of my characters thinks text adventure games are the height of technological achievement. There'd be no utility in it for me.

I guess if people want to convince the mods to let them do it and have it count towards AC, it's not skin off my nose, but it's certainly not going to chance how my characters communicate, and probably wouldn't for the vast majority of the game. Given that, and the fact that it's basically redundant given the journal system, it seems like a pointless thing to do just so someone can drop a note to someone else without 'cluttering the comm'.

I agree, completely. I don't want it to be a case of "oh well we've been doing it for this way for this long so why change?" but I don't think we're alone in the thought that even if they're implemented that my characters won't be using them because they won't think to and it won't really make a difference to them one way or the other.

And wow that was an unintentionally long sentence.

I mentioned above that the logistics of it are already in place: someone making a filtered post to a single person could simply be moved to the "ic inbox" instead of the main page. There's no need to replicate a "voicemail" or "email" function. Last month in Asgard I posted twice and left fourteen IC inbox messages with a single character. The IC inbox threads were all left separately - usually in response to each other, a 7-comment thread with Stiles led to a 4-comment one with Scott led to shooting a message to Isaac, etc. If I wanted to do something like that in Asgard, I would end up posting sixteen times to the Paradisa main community in a single month.

I know that doing that isn't discouraged, and that is how the journals "work," but the point of the matter is that most games these days have IC inboxes for things like that because having them on the main page is really, really disheartening and really, really discouraging to new players who are trying to build CR.

I'm not trying to say that, if this system were in place, that people MUST move threads to inboxes, and honestly - our cast is already setting them up, because even if we can't use them for AC, I feel way, way more comfortable pinging people in them there, especially when it's always a tossup if the person you're locking a thread to is going to even see it in the comm, especially if you don't communicate OOCly.

(This is just my two cents!! And putting points forward in text always makes me feel like I am being a massive jerk, please please don't read this as being confrontational or argumentative, because that is seriously my last intention ever. :))

It's okay, I'm not reading it as confrontational :) Things like this should inspire discussion!

I completely understand where you're coming from. I do see both sides of the argument and I've put IC Inboxes to use in other games, though not nearly as often as some. The thing is that I just don't see it as something that could become a wide-spread thing in Para. I could understand maybe a compromise of sorts that if someone wanted to have a separate inbox or whatever you want to call it in their personal journals to do little mini shoutouts they could do that with the understanding that it wouldn't count towards AC. Of course based on the different conversations going on here it's pretty widely accepted that it doesn't count so I'm just going to leave that subject at that.

I do get what you and others mean when you say that seeing all the locked entries can be somewhat off-putting. That's another reason why I suggested relocating them to the logs comm. That way they're still out there but not taking up the main comm, if that makes sense.

I get what you mean by the one conversation leading to another etc. I've had that happen and I've, in the past, added an [edited later] portion on my original post and maybe ping or PM the person it's filtered to as an FYI. I know that doesn't work for everyone and it might not be the ideal solution but it's one example of an alternative. Finding workarounds for things like that can inspire creative solutions, sometimes :)

In the end if people with characters who might be more inclined to use such things want to do something on their own that's great! It's an alternative to sending someone an IM or Plurk and hashing out a two second conversation or handwaving it. I'm not opposed to the idea in its entirely I just don't think it should be something that should be expressly set up for Paradisa as a whole.

That all makes sense! And raise really, really good points. It was more of a passing idea than anything else -- it's something that helps me facilitate CR, but it's definitely something that isn't for everyone. I think my friends and I who are interested in this are going to do just as you suggested - set inboxes up as alternatives to handwaving or spamming the comm, and then just continue to make AC with posts and logs to the main communities, which isn't a bad alternative at all.

(And I am glad! I have Problems With Being Concise and always end up sort of word vomiting everywhere in hopes that somewhere along the lines I actually say what I'm trying to say, hahaha. But thank you for bringing these points up! ♥ They are good ones, and it's true that I was sort of just brushing aside some of the mechanics of the game that I assumed could just be vaguely explained away.)

HOW'S THE GAME?

IC Inboxes

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

(no subject)

(no subject)

(no subject)

(no subject)

Re: IC Inboxes

Re: IC Inboxes

no subject

(see keywords?)

Re: (see keywords?)

IC Inboxes

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Re: IC Inboxes

Re: IC Inboxes

Re: IC Inboxes

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject